The Golden Compass
18 12 2007
The first part of Philip Pullman’s ‘His Dark Materials’ trilogy is now a major film from New Line Cinema starring Dakota Blue Richards as Lyra, Nicole Kidman as Marissa Coulter, Daniel Craig as Lord Asriel, and Eva Green as Serafina Pekkala.
Philip Pullman’s ‘His Dark Materials’ trilogy – ‘The Golden Compass’ (called ‘Northern Lights’ in the UK), ‘The Subtle Knife’ and ‘The Amber Spyglass’ launch a rather direct attack the Church and the Bible’s picture of God. (This attack is more explicit in the books. It has been somewhat watered down in the film of ‘The Golden Compass,’ but we’re told that the second and third parts of the trilogy will make it more explicit.)
Read our special feature on Philip Pullman and His Dark Materials
Why, when someone writes from an atheistic point of view do you use the perjorative term “propaganda”. I’m sure you wouldn’t use the term “Christian propaganda” for the Chronicles of Narnia”.
The appeal of “His Dark Materials” is the narrative, the detail contained in the different worlds, the fact that readers aren’t patronised, and the multi layered aspects of the book.
Far from being harmful propaganda the book stimulates thought, it gives people room to be independent in their thinking. For instance – what is the significance of spectres – my view is that they consume “dust” or our personality and sense of being. If this is a religious reference I don’t think it is levelled at religion per se but rather a rigid system of dogma which is hostile to independent thought and compels people to conform. Does this web site stimulate independent thought or seek to bring people to your world view. I would suggest the latter much more than His Dark Materials.
If the books can be seen as an attack on the god of the bible it would have to be the god of the old testament – the vengeful, jealous god who does seem to be rather an unpleasant character at times – ripe for knocking off his cloudy mountain maybe. However, Christians need not be worried, Christ brought in a new philosophy years ago – don’t get bogged down with the small print, just love one another – that’s a cool message and Philip Pullman makes no attack on that.
I hope people will be influenced by the way he describes the church. I despise religious orthodox churches with passion. They tie people in chains, encourage narrow minded blinkeredness and promote mistrust of outsiders and division. Now an open church built around compassion for ones fellow man regardless of his belief isn’t the sort of church under attack here. What sort of church is yours.
Here is an example of rank hypocrisy in many churches in the UK. Divorcees can remarry in church, despite Jesus himself saying that this was adulterous, yet these same churches cannot accept gays in there congregation on the basis of the writings of St Paul. Now there’s a nasty example of people using their theology to justify their predudices and it stinks.
My 2 daughters have been brought up with a knowledge of the christian faith, we have had many discussions on right and wrong and respect for others. It is up to them what they believe. They are both non believers with a very powerful sense of morality. One in particular (now 22) is incensed that church people are wanting to stop people from seeing the Golden Compass. I’ve pointed out the irony that a film that attacks a church that seeks to control peoples lives and thoughts is being recommended for boycott.
I second everything Martin Andrew has written, but was pleased to see that “orthodox” was not capitalised.
Christians should not be so paranoid, and should look for the good – there is lots of it in the books. I thought that the books were attacking authoritarianism, the exploitation of the vulnerable and abuse of power. If this is truly an attack on Christianity, then we need to join in. But I think that it was for his stand against such things that Jesus was executed.
I think that we should embrace the message of the books – and examine ourselves. Are we open and welcoming or condemning? Do we place burdens on people rather than liberating? Are we based on power or on compassion? Do we show love to our neighbour?
The article states:
If his worldview is pantheistic, his vision is secular: we will reject the kingdom of heaven but build a republic in its place. Of course, the same secular vision that drives much of the political activity of our times. Yet it is a deeply flawed vision, and there is a growing mass of evidence that it does not work – it simply cannot deliver a livable society.
Clearly the author has missed the parts of the trilogy that constantly reiterate that Lord Asriel’s plan to build such a republic is doomed to failure, and is thus actually in agreement with his opinions.
“What about Lord Asriel’s world? Wouldn’t you want to live there?”
“It’s going to fail, remember,” she said.
Loved the books and wished the film had been a little better. I look forward to the second in the trilogy. The God in the final books is an ancient construct that has become completely irrelevent, powerless and meaningless. Definately a reference to traditional understandings of God and the church. Pullman is an atheist and wears that on his sleeve. What good is served by getting angry with the dissilusioned and those who cannot find faith? As a Christian I feel we need to listen more and understand why people are where they are. Pullman does not advocate genocide or prejudice or genuine evil in the world. There seems to be a genuine questioning in his writings about why such things are there. In the same way, we should take it on the chin that we as Christians sometimes lose sight of the call to compassion and understanding. If we try and tie God down with religious dogma and theological patterns, then the God that WE have constructed, mirrors the God we see in the Amber Spyglass. It is surely better to open our hearts to the God of freedom and creativity. This is the God of the Bible that even the Bible cannot tie down. I suppose we could throw stones at authors like Pullman if you want, but maybe it is dangerous to throw stones in glass houses.
I was drawn to this site by the article regarding Philip Pullman’s Dark Materials. Whilst I am concerned with the theistic vitriol directed at the trilogy and first film, it’s refreshing to find such level-headed comments here.
To me, Pullman’s underlying message is all about giving children the opportunity to think freely. For the religious right to call his book ‘sinister’ or ‘dangerous’ is therefore somewhat ironic. It’s far less sinister than their indoctrination of children into narrow-minded belief systems and practices.
I have deep respect for the commentators to ask questions about their faith, or at least allow questions to be asked! Rather than atheism being for those “who cannot find faith”, Pullman shows it can be a moral and truth-seeking belief system in its own right – one that should be taught as an equal alternative to other forms of belief in schools everywhere.
awwww…. they deleted my coment.. i spent ages writting it… i didnt have anything bad in it, did i?
Sadly most of those who have left comments do not see beyond the secular.
Their understanding of God is as flawed as many of the Christian’s who profess to know Him today. I have seen the film. I found it graphically entertaining but because of comments read before I went to see it, I was looking for the subtle message, which was not too difficult to find. This is another ‘New Age’ film which promotes the ‘immortality of the human soul’, a concept promoted by both spiritualism and secular church theology. In fact this concept is Greek in its origin – nay even further back than that – the Garden of Eden. Genesis 3:4. For those who are not biblically versed, shows Satan expressly contradicting God by stating the opposite of what He had said to Adam and Eve. Disobedience means death – not continuance in spiritual existence. This film, like many that have gone before it promotes the eternal existence of the human soul and makes ‘spirit guides’ (biblically evil fallen angels), to be sweet pets who help an individual. Witches are the good guy’s and light is considered darkness. The New Age message is: There is no God – ‘Human’s are God’s.’
and this message is being passed to our children in the form of entertainment.
Oops… Conor’s original comment said:
I would like to point out that HDM do not discriminate in the Christian faith. Philip Pullman has written great books, and he has no intention in discriminating anyone. in his books HDM, he said there MAY or MAY NOT be a god, and that the authority, (the first ever angel in his books and changed human ways, and that is to represent the fight between angels and god), is a demi god (lik a roman god) and what Philip Pullman is trying to say is that where that faith and power are not to mix, look at the tutors, hard times. and what Philip Pullman has said is that the authority has weaved its self into the bible and corrupted human ways, and that Lyra shall bring them back to the way they are meant to be. At the end when she is told to build the Republic of Heaven, Philip Pullman does not mean to go against religion, but instead she is technically doing god’s word and bringing humans together. Philip Pullman IS entitled to his right to express himself, and he has, but not in any form of badness. I’d like to say that am below 15 years of age and a catholic, and I enjoyed the books, very much so, and I did not feel offended in any form or way. I hope this has set a new path in your line of thought. Thank you for reading my thoughts
I think the “attack” on god is perfectly fine! Im no christian but i believe Pullman is onto somthing because dark matter exists! it is a substance that has no electronic radiation and we cant detect it but we know it is there.
Some christians hate the ideas that the trilogy portrais but that is ridiculous one little thing like this and they are all going crazy.
I haven’t read the books but I will now, after reading all this. Something about this type of free thinking is really cool to see.
I support free thinking
Is there really a God?
Would it make more since for there not to be a God?
Many people argue that the Golden Compass turns people against God. As a fellow Christian, I would have to disagree. The books make no hatred against God, just the church. People should have the right to free thinking a free will. An atheist might argue that the Chronicles has a Christian perspective buth nothing would be done. But Christians are making a huge fuss of this book/movie. Many parents will not even allow their children to read the books. One of the main themes in the series is free thought. By not letting your children read this book, you are basically proving Pullman’s point. Aside from this book, parents try and shield their child from any thing that is not Christian. By doing this, you are cheating your child. A child should be able to make his own choices, not being them down his throat. Many churches require this book to be read, because it shows what hapens when a church becomes to powerful. Yes, the book does demean God in several places, but although we may not agree with it, Pullman is perfectly allowed to say whatever he wants to, in our free world.
I feel like I have read the books like 7 times already. I really want just one more book to come out. It would mean the world to me if only one short story came out revealing what happens after the tearful good bye. do they possibly find just one more window,or do they die on the beanch and meet up in the world of the dead ? One more book please!!=)
I agree with everything people have said so far, but furthermore there is plenty of evidence to support what Philip Pullman is saying in his books. Even in the Bible itself: “You may eat the fruit of any tree in the garden, except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad. … if you do, you will die the same day.” If we take “of what is good and what is bad” as knwoledge of everything as many people do, this clearly shows that God did now want humans to have knowledge or free will, Adam and Eve didn’t die did they, so why did God try so hard to prevent humans from having free will? You may say that God didn’t put a forcefield or anything around it to prevent them from reaching it, but he certaily protected the tree of life: “After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life”. And after this God apparently created the book of Leviticus which is just law after law after law about what we can and cannot do.
There is also scientific evidence to support the book, as someone earlier said there is dark matter and dark energy in the galaxy. Nowwhere does he say that we are a “cosmic accident” as you say in your introduction, more that we may have been created by God, but he did not want us to have free will.
However, he is more against the Church than God himself, he portrays the Church as and oppresive force preventing free thought even in academic places and destroyed anything that can tell the truth such as the alethiometer. And this was very much the case in the Middle Ages as we all kow about, they burned ‘Heritics’ who were merely taking another view point of the Bible.
The “His Dark Materials” books doesnt go against God directly at all! The only thing I found against God was The Authority and he was clearly stated NOT God. Im Catholic and I (tried) to read the Bible (Its so BIG) and hate the way people are so protective of God. Life of Brian, for instance, was banned all over the place, but Its just supposed to be funny! Philip said it himslef “If I were God, I wouldnt want to have anything to do with my creation”
What are you talking about, the whole point Philip Pullman was saying was that The Authority is God, the first angel who told all the others that he created them, and so became God. The Authority is represented as God, and a suppressive God who did not want anybody going against him, did you even read the books at all? It is clearly stated that The Authority IS God.
i think this whole debate is completely pointless. His Dark Materials is a work of FICTION and if a few Christians wish to be upset about a fictional God being destroyed in a children’s book then it just proves Philip Pullmans view of the Christian church to be correct.
“If his worldview is pantheistic, his vision is secular: we will reject the kingdom of heaven but build a republic in its place. Of course, the same secular vision that drives much of the political activity of our times. Yet it is a deeply flawed vision, and there is a growing mass of evidence that it does not work – it simply cannot deliver a livable society.”
–from the article
…So…A republic cannot deliver a liveable society? It seems like history would disagree, just look at the majority of the major world powers today, they seem to be liveable enough. As a matter of fact the main problem they are facing now happens to be oppressive, narrow-minded religious fanatics. It doesn’t really matter what god inspires you to close your mind, the effect is still the same.
I don’t have much to say, but just some comments on the article as well as on some of the other posted comments. You will find that generalisations are an easy trap when debating something as controvertial as religion. I suppose Martin feels strongly about his views but does have a narrow minded view on Orthodox faith for instance.
As for the criticisms about the book, it’s quite typical within New Age Christian faiths, to be easily intimidated by apposing view points. Lets not forget that we are talking about fictional literature, no one is questioning the bible here. I don’t particularly agree with a lot of New Age Christian teachings, but your tendency to constantly feel threatened, seems a little overwhelming. Questioning faith and questioning teachings are two very seperate things. Personally i don’t ever believe i questioning someone’s faith, however teachings, i can go on all night about some serious problems there.
A very interesting point in the last thing you say: ‘I don’t believe I question someone’s faith, however teachings….’
Ummm. But surely people have faith in something – in some teachings or other? It sounds almost like you’re saying it’s OK for someone to have faith, as long as they don’t actually believe anything specific ?
From my reading of translations of ancient manuscripts (Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi Library, etc) I think that Christianity (at least since the Council of Nicaea) should be re-named ‘Paulianity’ – he seems to have distorted the original teaching almost out of recognition.
Philip Pullman’s writing is, to my mind, not ‘anti-God’, but ‘anti-religion’ – showing the terrible things that people do in the name of religion – whatever its real teaching – the Roman Catholic Church itself has so much blood on its hands (the Inquisition and the Dominican originators) that it behoves it to keep a lower profile.
In comparison, Mr. Pullman is a pussy-cat.
Hello. my name is Thomas and i am a young christian of 14 and part of the salvation army. I have read the His Dark Materials a couple of times now and i must say that i respectfully dissagree with this websites views on Phillip Pullman’s work. The books from my view are not so much Atheist but against religion. As it says in this feature ” Pullman’s worldview does away with God, but he has nothing to put in God’s place to account for how we are here.” but in the amber spyglass king Ogunwe says that ” there might be a god. but if there is i would bet he is hiding away ashamed of what humans have done”. In fact there are many times in the book when it says there is a real god and that the “Authority” is an imposter and a lier and the power is really in the hands of the regent who is just another dictator. Frankly Pullman may be an “Atheist” but realy that is his choice and no one should critisise the books or films because of that the fact is the books are a work of genius and while they may be against religion i think that they are not against god.
In my view, both the creator’s of this site and men like Phillip Pullman are necessary in this world of ours. Then danger with most ideologies is not in the ideas upon which they are premised, but rather the extent to which followers of those ideas are willing to impose their viewpoints onto other people.
We should all remember that human existence comes with very few absolute truths, and that just because a particular belief system helps a certain individual to live a more fulfilling life, it may not provide answers for others. Atheists would do well to remember that not all Christians actively seek to impose dogmatic tyranny on those who do not uphold there faith (I was raised in an LDS household and have always felt my parents were quite open minded toward the world views of others.) On the same token, Christians (and religious people in general for that matter) should remember that most atheists espouse many the same moral principles of goodness towards mankind that they have embraced in their own lives. Atheists simply adopt these values on different premises. The more I communicate with people of varying creed, dogma, or world view, the more I am convinced that we humans are all more alike than we think.
Personally, I have read both The Chronicles of Narnia, and His Dark Materials several times, and I must say they are both absolutely wonderful pieces of literature. They both carry themes I agree with, they both carry themes I disagree with, but they both promote just the sort of dialog that is occurring here. I recommend both series to anyone who enjoys fantasy, fairy tales, or simply a good read.
DAVID
Of course, but what is achieved through teaching religion? If it is developing a faith in God, then why question it? The faith isn’t the problem, its the approach to teaching it. The irony is that quite often the definition of faith is broken, when we see acts of “proving a point”.
one word : FICTION
My boys and I so loved the Dark Material trilogy that we’re at a complete loss for what to read to next. Is there a book or series out there that evens comes to the intricate and powerful plot and characters in this series?
If anyone here who loves Pullman has any suggestions, I’m all ears!
We read the Narnia series several years ago, but I had to stop halfway through A Horse and His Boy because it was just so clearly racist! I think CS Lewis was brilliant, and I love his literary criticism, but his children’s books are pure christian propaganda.
Are Christians saying that a fictional novle can disprove their faith? Neither the film nor the book set out to claim, or even persuade people that there is any basis in fact for any of the story. It takes a fictional standpoint about parallel worlds which has been done many times before – the characters are not real therefore neithr are their church leaders or their god. If it makes any kind of attack then I think it is probably more about what people do in the name of God and no one can deny that there have been, and still are, parralels for the Majasterium in our real world. Leaders from most religions have sought to control peoples minds and actions and still do in many parts of the world. Remember the theme in Pullmans work encounters religion in a very broad sense not in a secular one.
While the film is fiction and therefore by its very nature cannot challenge anything, I dont see what is wrong with challenging that which we believe in. It is what helps real faith to grow. Something afraid of challenge appears weak and that cannot be good.
This is a piece of fiction.
A persons thoughts made into words on a page. Nobody is forced to buy this, to read this or to watch the film. Nobody is telling us that it will save us, that it will make things right and end all suffering. It does not dictate how we should live or love. It challenges, stimulates, it draws on everything around us and yes uses some imagery which may not be to ‘established’ liking.
You have got to ask though why is it hailed such a wonderful work? Why do people cry and feel when they read it? Why are people left wondering if anything can match the experience.
Is that because it is fiction, it is not real, it takes us to places we can never go to, makes us feel like those places are real……..for a short time. Then we bump and fall back to reality and find people saying this is not good….this is undermining us. Then we wonder if we have come back at all ….or are we still there…. For me a little bit of dust does us all good, else how do we build up immunity in this allergy ridden world.
This is a wonderful series that will help our young people to think and learn and that is one of the greatest gifts to bestow upon them. As some of the comments from young people above show give credit where due and stop preaching….LEAD!
J
I’m a primary school teacher reading Northern Lights to my class and we are enthralled. It is a fantastic piece of writing. Whilst searching for some free resources for my class to continue their exploration of the book I googled some quite nasty stuff from people who are supposed to love humanity. They were mostly christians. As a deep sceptic of all religion, yet respective of someone’s right to hold a belief, I found the vitriol to be brilliant. If you want to turn someone against religion, especially christianity, read some of the comments by the bigots found on a simple google search. It was, therefore, quite refreshing to find a christian site that acknowldged people’s rights to not believe without denouncing them as evil. I congratulate you for treading this delicate path so adeptly. You have, no doubt, been faced with many demands from christian fascists and would say that you have done well to resist many of them.
I’m going to read the whole story to my class, and am going to enjoy doing so, especially as it will be a poke in the eye to the nutters so prominent on the google search. After that, I will let my children make their own minds up. That’s my job, after all.
I don’t think much of the Christian Church in any of its guises but after perusing this site’s comments on this book I have now formed an opinion that some Christians can also be human beings. Well done.
I am a 14 year old girl and I am a huge fan of HDM, and not at all a fan of religion.
When I came onto this site I admit I laughed; on some other page it was ranting that HDM had the Church tourturing a witch…I must say that if you are going to complain about any aspect of HDM then try not to complian about parts were we all know through histoty that the Church WERE in the wrong for.
As for that person who said that Pullman was promoting new age stuff (alot of which is not so new as the name susgests) and said that deamons were ‘sprirt guides’ was missing the entire point of deamons-they are a part of a person, like a consience. They are NOT pretty pets, and Pullman himself said that if they had been they would have just got into the way of the story.
If I were Pullman, I’d be glad for all this negative and often flawed feed back, mainly because you are proving his point; you don’t like it when people get all public about the problems in your beleif systems.
‘Beleif systems’ seems to be a pretty wide classifaction today anyway. I have a Christian friend who one told me that she beleived in this, this and this, but not this or this or this and she wasn’t sure about that yet.
I mean, why bother? Why can’t we just live and let live, as long as we don’t harm others?
(THE OTHERS: People of different beleifs, gays, divorces and so on)
I’m thirteen years of age, but don’t be prepared to look down on what I have to say since I’m young. I’m quite a mature reader, but of course I have read Narnia and His Dark Materials. I think they are magnificent pieces of literature, great for fantasy readers. They inspire creativity and more. They are both carrying very obvious messages, and those are the feelings of authors put into the pages of a book (which usually makes a book better). I know that when I write, I use up my feelings in the words I thread together to make plots and I think many authors do. It’s what makes people passionate about writing!
And I read through comments on here, elsewhere and everywhere in general about these books and I can honestly say I am ashamed. Yes, HDM is anti-religious, yes Narnia promotes Christianity but there’s no point shielding people from these things. If you truly believe something, you shouldn’t be swayed by someone else’s thoughts, let alone a fictional story! People need to make up their own minds. Books inspire new ways of thinking, but that doesn’t mean you would give up all your beliefs for one. And if someone did, that’s their choice. And surely we should all be open minded and try to understand others view points anyway? In RE we have been tackling the rocky ground of science and religion, and I haven’t lost track of my belief in Jesus. When I read this series, I read it as fiction. I didn’t stop believing in God.
Why do you people want to do this? Why are you all so scared? We live in a society where we have the right to freespeech. Stop criticising each other like this! Can’t all you people, everyone included, just be open minded ot people’s opinions? My best friends are Muslims and I’m a Christian. We don’t have a problem, so why do you?
I have chosen my path, and it’s no one else’s business to try and make me change it. And don’t just say to me, oh you were probably raised like that. I’ll have you know that most of my family are atheists. I can read books from all different viewpoints and accept that they are someone’s thoughts. I won’t hate on them for it, because that’s just pathetic. I’m not so weak in my religion that I feel the need to degrade everyone else’s belief system.
And I really need to finish my homework, so I’ll stop there. Anyway, please, can you give us a bit more dignity? We can make our own decisions.
I’m only commenting because I was researching Philip Pullman, saw something about scientific evidence for why there is a God, clicked on that link, and did not see one scientific fact proving God’s existence but rather saw an article stating that it is fine for thinking people to believe in God.
I am not commenting to say one shouldn’t believe in God or only uneducated people believe in God. But I find it…interesting….that I could not comment on that article at that article’s page. Also, where is this scientific evidence? My e-mail is gisrielj@mailbox.sc.edu, flatter me.
Hi Joe — It’s a bit difficult to know how to respond to this without knowing which page you’re referring to. Can you post a link?
I don’t particularly feel like entering this whole religion debate, but I do have just one question about the actual article and its argument.
The author asks, “…does Philip Pullman intend Dust to represent God?” then says that “…the answer must be that it depends what you mean by the word ‘God’.” So far so good.
Then the author describes two possibilities: either Pullman intends Dust to represent the kind of god that’s in the Bible, or Pullman intends Dust to represent an all-encompassing life force, otherwise known as another kind of god.
Then the author deduces–with no logical or textual evidence as support–that neither of these is possible. From the article: “…it appears that if we take Pullman’s intentions seriously (as we must), it doesn’t do justice to his ideas to identify Dust with God.”
But that makes no sense. Pullman could easily intend Dust to represent an all-encompassing life force, and if so, that force could easily be labeled God, which would mean Pullman’s intention was absolutely to portray Dust as God. Or not–but the point is, ruling out all such possibilities is illogical, and so is the article’s main conclusion.
Anyway, next time, maybe the author should try looking up Pullman’s actual intentions before jumping to conclusions. And by the way, they’re available here: http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/news/interviews-q-a/pullman-on-dust-theology-and-freedom-of-thought if you want to know what he really thinks.
I am a Christian and would disagree with Pullman in many places, although the most important disagreement is something I have not found on this site. With Pullman, primarily his Ending, true love is both powerless and separated from physical reality. This is contrary to the Christian view, which may be exemplified by Tolkien’s story of Beren and Luthien, where the basic rules of the world were broken by true love. And is Christianity itself not about the same thing on a different level – about God’s love for us breaking through the laws of sin and death?
This, however, is something we need to counter in our own lives more than on any paper or screen. (But I still need to formulate and write this
).
I would, however, defend Pullman from one statement in this article. Namely that it was dishonest for him to criticize Lewis for “propaganda” and do the same.
The criticism significantly predates the trilogy. In the meantime, Pullman may well have realized that Lewis’ approach actually worked. It is not dishonest to change one’s mind. Does every reader stand by every article or blog post they published throughout all their lives?
I think David and the commenters have missed two very important ideas in His Dark Materials. First is, Pullman is standing hard against original sin and against the Christian belief that finding pleasure in our sexuality would be a sin.
I think Pullman is doing a great job teaching children that there is nothing sin-like about their bodies or about their sexuality, and even more, suggesting that love and sexuality are great things (I don’t agree with Mikhail Ramendik who writes “With Pullman, primarily his Ending, true love is both powerless and separated from physical reality.” I think Pullman states that true love is something great, something mighty, but actually there are some things mightier than love…other people’s lifes for example.)
The second, and even more important thing people are missing is Pullman saying that nobody should focus on what will happen to them after death. He says we only have the life we live on Earth, and after that we dissolve and reunite with the Universe. I think it’s a very important thing to say to people: that nobody should look beyond their lifes on Earth, nobody should stay waiting for something bigger and better to come, that we should try to make the best of what we have right here and right now.
I also see that these aren’t the main reasons for David or other Christians to reject these books. Somebody saying that Church is wrong, that religion has transformed into something that is hurting people more than it helps them must be shocking and hard to accept.
But I also hope there will be at least one priest who, having read His Dark Materials, will change his mind about things and (for example) accept a gay person into his church, or tell young people that God won’t dislike them for having sex before they’re married. And if this will happen, I think Pullman will have achieved his goal. Or one of them, at least.
Hedgehog -
Yes, but…
what if there really is life after death?
What a great discussion! Good for you, Lorelei, and also Mikhail and many others. First-
I am totally against censorship and do recommend Pullman’s books, though with some reservations, to fantasy loving readers.
I am a Catholic. And I did find some of the trilogy offensive (why is there not one priest, monk or nun who is good and retains his/her faith? Why are all the members of the Magisterium – a word with a specific Catholic meaning and resonance – either weak or evil? Isn’t this biased?) But it was not just the anti-religious content that bothered me.
Pullman criticizes Lewis for being racist and sexist. But my sister pointed out that Pullman himself is more sexist than Lewis. Not one of his women is capable of logical thought. All of them are instinctual creatures driven by their emotions. When Will appears in “The Subtle Knife”, he pretty much steals the book from Lyra, and that does bother me. There are other incoherencies and inconsistencies in these books – to take one example, though there is much that is lovely and powerful in the march through limbo, I couldn’t help but find it puzzling that the harpies rejected Lyra’s fictions in the course of a fictional story. If only truth can save, why write or read novels at all? I also could not swallow Mrs. Coulter’s sudden overwhelming love for the young daughter she barely knew. (That is a prime example of the problems I have with the way women are presented in these books. Mary Malone, though I liked her, is another. I actually knew a couple of people who lost their vocations during Vatican 2 and the sexual revolution, and I’ve read of others. In no case that I’ve read about did the people concerned lose their faith in God just because they found they’d been mistaken in their own vocations.)
So I don’t love these books, but I do admire them. And I think they do a very good thing in encouraging discussion. I am rather more likely to recommend them than the “Potter” series at this point. Now, that one is truly unGodly!
Just my two cents, of course.
I have read people’s comments on this topic with interest. Personally I have read the trilogy many times and a number of books on the philosophy and theology behind HDM. I find it fascinating that people can take a book based on such interesting imagery so literally. I do understand that some people would find the use of the terminology, god and church etc, offensive however I do not. This book forces us to face up to the imperfections of organised religion and the massive mistakes that the organised church has made – it forces the reader to think! This can surely only be positive! The non thinking blind obdience of those who follow ‘the church’ of HDM is not something that should be encouraged, just as a habitual attendance of a church building on a Sunday should not be encouraged in lieu of a relationship with God! The character traits exhibited by Lyra and Will (loyalty, a sense of justice, search for truth, a keen sense of right anad wrong) are things I feel are admirable and certainly things I would wish to encourage in my children. Rather than feel threatened and banning these books, I think Christians would be better off seeing what can be gained from them – just as with Richard Dawkins’ bus campaign which was soon supported by many Christians as it caused debate! While it may be true that we will never argue people into heaven, getting people thinking is an important step in helping them to understand how they can have a relationship with God and ultimately come to want that for themselves.
I have to say that I have only read your page on your views of the Golden Compass. I comend you for saying that you do not agree but uphold Pullmans freedom to tell the story and our right to read/watch it.
I myself am not religious and I do feel that religion is the source of most of our world problems. For a very long time religion has caused seperation and division within society. Although from within a religious community such as Christianity it may seem that this is not the case, all religions and those that believe them, will protect their faith with vigour. This over the years has lead to wars between great countries and even today we find the west at war with terrorists that fight us because of their religion.
Religion in my opinion has been and still is one of the biggest problems we have in our society today. I am not talking about faith. One can of course believe in a God or Gods if he or she wishes. I refer to organised religion and I believe that the movie is trying to make this point as well. It is organised religion that clamps down and stamps out decent, it has and does not tolerate people speaking out against religion. Orgainised religion is a force that has been used to divide and conquer us humans for a very long time.
All humans should ave the right to choose what they believe or do not believe in, but so often we find that religion brain washes parents to force their beliefs on their children, thus perpetuation the cycle. However it is not the Parents to blame, they are victims of the people in real power the organisers. The ones that push the buttons tell us how to interperate the religious texts etc. THese people are the ones that make organised religion so dangerous as these people hold the power.
Is it not funny how the elite of the world believe in Christianity or are Jewish or Muslim. They all follow one of the main religions and these people all hold great positions of power among us. British Prime Ministers, American Presidents, great corporate leaders have all followed Christianity or others and have all spoke of its virtues, yet these same people work tirelessly to remove freedoms from each and everyone of us at any given opportunity.
This is just a short summary of a bigger subject that I believe the movie and the book tried to convey. I do not believe that either wanted to silence those that believe in Christianity. That would not be right and would go against freedom, I feel that it simply was a backlash against religions constant need to try and silence anyone or any piece of culture that does not portray its values as the true and only values, which in a trully free society would not work. In a trully free society one must be free to believe and speak about their beliefs as he/she sees fit, as long as their actions and beliefs do not indirectly or directly harm or stop the freedom of anyone else from expressing his/her own freedom and beliefs.
I for one do not believe in a god, yet I know we are all connected and have the power to change our reality as we see fit, quantum physics is constantly affirming this theory. Infact I hold ideas about what reality is and what surrounds me, as I find beliefs can be to rigid. They do not allow for change. An idea can always change when presented with new info that fits and solves problems that science tries to explain. Our world is just energy, we are just energy. Our reality that we see infront of us is just a hologram built up from the collective concious thought that we all share. As matter is simply vibration, frequency, we are always transmitting energy to each other and across time and space. This means we have to be all connected at some level. Maybe it is us, humans that are the true creators of this world not some fictional all powerful being. The film does touch on these issues, the book more so but they are important because the science that is coming out is at the stage where the true fabric of our reality is being discovered and we are on the verge of great discoveries. Some people dont like that idea, as it goes against their religion, thus they try to silence movies like GC or scientists for their work into evolution etc.
You guys on this site may believe in freedom for all regardless if the other view conflicts with your own and yet still stay true to your religious beliefs, which I commend you for. however I feel others are not so enlightened and for that reason I feel these movies and books are necessary. People need to have the chouce, just as I can discusss this and disagree with your relgious beliefs and you can disagree with my ideas/beliefs, everyone else must be given the same opportunity to decide.
This is true freedom, to decide your own path without outside pressure to go one way. This is where religion leaves a bad taste in my mouth and more often that not fails. this is what GC is trying to say. One should not ever be subject to suruptitious control that comes in the guise of a heping hand that leads you to a cage with no bars, a cage of the mind. This is a cage we humans will be trapped in for a long time if we allow it.
Thanks for reading.
I am a elementary school teacher and not religious in any particular way. I have read both stories to my class and they can actually distinguish between real and fantasy! Both have value of fantasy stories and the theology in them does provide good discussion points for talking to the kids about what they and their families believe.
Kids just don’t accept stories as having relevant truths to them. I loved the Narnia books as an 8 year old, they are still great stories and yet i would hardly describe myself as religious.
Hi, I am a middle school student and even I know that everyone has a right to express their own opinons in their books so if you dont want to read it because it suggests that the Church is ‘evil’ then please do not come complaining to us. Pullman has provided another look at Christianity that may be negative but that does not mean it is true. So get over it.
@Livie
So what you’re saying is:
* It’s OK for Philip Pullman to disagree with Christianity
* It’s OK for you to disagree with us
But it’s not OK for us to disagree with Philip Pullman?
How is that right?
A few years onward…
I was pleased to see that the prospect of sequels has been buried. The film was an economic failure, and so the masters of Hollywood, whose god is the dollar, will not support more losses. The reason is simple. Pullman is no Lewis. His thoughts may be entertaining to some, but they are not intellectual. Pullman calls for “freedom of thought” while being entirely bound by an emotional hatred of Christianity that evidently makes him unwilling to really study it as fairly if it were a far eastern religion. He supposedly wants to teach children to question authority – as if they needed to be taught that. Any parent of actual children knows, that even before they hit their teens (the minimum age at which one would read this book or watch this film) they question authority without any teaching whatsoever. The thing they need to be taught is respect for authority – that authority is erected as a defense against real dangers. The idea that authority is necessarily bad/evil is itself brainless. Free thought, as Pullman understands it, is merely an unwillingness to actually think – to have assumptions that faith and organized religion are evil – as if anything that proposes to have a real effect in the world ought to be disorganized and cannot possibly be a force for good. Reading more Lewis and GK Chesterton and less Pullman would cure people of a mentality that actually discourages thinking.