Subscribe here to the Slipstream podcast

Slipstream - the leaders' podcast

Subscribe here. Slipstream is a new podcast for younger and emerging leaders, featuring guests like Terry Virgo, Shane Claiborne, Bishop Tom Wright, and many others. Read more...

David Couchman

David Couchman

David Couchman is the lead author for the 'Facing the Challenge' series of courses.

Challenging Times

David Couchman's blog on living in today's world in the light of the Bible

RSS Feed rss feed

David Couchman has a respected Bible teaching ministry, and many of his sermons can be found on this web site.

He has also led seminars at national events such as the Christian Resources Exhibition, Keswick Convention, and the FIEC Conference.

More about David...

Listen to Phil Prior interviewing David about Focus's vision

News updates

To receive the latest news from Facing the Challenge by email, register with this site.

Site map

Site map

Link to this site

Link to this site

Facebook Group

Steve Chalke

When was the message lost?

'The Lost Message of Jesus' is a snappy title for the book, but it raises a serious question: if the orthodox Christian understanding of Jesus's death as a penal substitutionary atonement is wrong, if the Church has somehow lost Jesus's real message of love and affirmation, just when was his message lost?

In recent centuries?

Someone might say that the message was lost in the last few centuries. However, this will not really stand up, because the belief in the penal substitutionary atonement through Christ's death goes back much further in Church history than just the last few centuries.

At the conversion of Constantine?

In the meeting on 7th October 2004, hosted by the Evangelical Alliance, Stuart Murray Williams, who represents the UK Anabaptist Network, argued that the message was lost at the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine's 'conversion' to Christianity. As a result of his conversion, Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Williams argued that one result of this was that as the Church moved from the fringes of society to the centre of the power structures, it became necessary to clarify Christian doctrine. This clarification resulted in the original simple message of Jesus being obscured: the message was lost at the time of the Constantinian settlement. (Read what Stuart Murray Williams' said in full.)

Stuart Murray Williams is certainly right that the 'conversion' of Constantine, and the making of Christianity into the official state religion of the Roman empire, was a disaster for the Church, and one from which we are only just now beginning to recover, as Christianity loses its place in the power centres of society.

It is also true that in the years following the conversion of the Roman Empire, there were a string of Church councils which clarified Christian doctrine in response to various heresies - at Nicaea in 325 AD, Constantinople in 381 AD, Ephesus in 431 AD, Chalcedon in 451 AD, and so on.

But these Councils did not create what the Church believed about the person and work of Christ.. They clarified what the Church already believed. The penal substitutionary atoning death of Christ can be traced back to long before these councils - to the New Testament itself. (As we have shown in the other articles on this site, we believe it is present in the teaching of Jesus himself, but even if this is denied, it is impossible to escape its presence in the rest of the New Testament.)

Between Jesus and Paul?

So if it was not in the last few centuries, and it was not at the time of Constantine's 'conversion,' just when was the 'Lost Message' lost? Was it between Jesus and Paul? Of course, some people have argued exactly this - that Paul misunderstood or misrepresented Jesus. But it is only possible to argue this by shattering the New Testament into contradictory fragments. Not only that, but - as we have shown in other articles - it is also necessary to drive a wedge between Jesus and the Old Testament too. It also becomes necessary to find a way round some of the things that Jesus himself said. So we are left with an incoherent Bible, in which we have to write off the Old Testament and half the New Testament, and radically re-interpret what Jesus himself said in the Gospels.

... or by Steve Chalke?

If the message of Jesus has ever been lost, it can only be because everyone else down through Church history has lost it, and only Steve Chalke has found it again. Isn't it more likely that the rest of the Church has rightly understood the message of Jesus, and that Steve Chalke has lost it?

More about the 'Lost Message'

For more on this vital subject, visit Pierced for Our Transgressions. Better still, read the book...

Pierced for Our Transgressions

Order from the UK
Order from the USA

Amazon store


WWW
Facing the Challenge
You are not logged in
Log in
Lost your password?
Register